ShillGate (Part II) – NameJetGM Acknowleges the Report of Shill Bidding

Tuesday July 18th at 2:51 PM EST – NameJetGM posts acknowledgement of the reports:

Hi all – Thanks for the heads-up. We are currently investigating this matter. We obviously do not condone any kind of shill bidding on NameJet, so we take this very seriously. I will post an update when I have one. Thanks again.

-JT

Tuesday July 18th at 3:00 PM EST – NamePros user: AndyBoothSi makes a statement that he sold the domains and the buyer is now listing the domains for sale and he wishes to reacquire them:

Actually, you will find they are listed by another seller. I moved these domains on. How is this disgraceful? James is bidding because he wants these names (formerly owned by me) at those prices. I am bidding on these names (formerly owned by me), because it’s for a price I would buy it back for, IE for less than I let them go to begin with. It isn’t shill bidding, as evidenced by buying AirplanesforSale.com. Find something better to complain about.

Likes: BoothDomains  <—–Notice that only his brother BoothDomains clicked on (Likes) 

I sold them all very recently. If you do a more up to date whois lookup, you would see ALL domains we are bidding on are no longer with us. As I say, if they’re buyable at a reasonable price, I would take them back. If the new owner wants them listed with no reserve, that’s their risk/responsibility.

Last edited: Tuesday at 3:11 PM
Tuesday July 18th at 2:44 PM EST – NamePros user: webquest replied with the following:

I thought maybe they were selling for someone else but first had the domains transferred to their accounts, thus the whois reflecting there info during the auction. After looking up whois history at DomainIQ I seen they owned several for years.

Airplanesforsale.com shows as owned by Andy Booth since 2013. The highest bidder was BQDNcom and 2nd highest was boothcom

bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM

Soccerzone.com shows as being owned by Booth.com as early as 2011.

3rd highest bidder:

brunswick $1,710 7/17/2017 1:52 PM
toghrul $1,610 7/17/2017 1:50 PM
bqdncom $1,310 7/17/2017 12:46 PM

Note: I’m not accusing them of shill bidding but something seems off here…hopefully they can come clear this up. I spent a lot of time finding names to bid on and researching them only to see their names bidding against me.

Many members of the NamePros community calls out the Booth brothers and also NameJet in regards to the domains in question having Whois records pointing to:
MovieZone.com, WrestlingWorld.com, Airlinejobs.com
Registrant Name: ANDY BOOTH
Registrant Organization: BOOTH.COM
Tuesday July 18th at 3:00 PM EST – NamePros user: AndyBoothSi makes another statement

These are not recent Whois lookups. They transferred out of my account. I don’t own them. I have every right to bid on them to buy back.

Tuesday July 18th at 3:21 PM EST – NamePros user: Grilled makes a key request and observation

No sales for LawTeacher, LACollege, MovieZone, MeatLoadRecipe, or WrestlingWorld on NameBio….

End this discussion by furnishing sales records. (email, escrow, ANYTHING) as this looks very suspicious to the naked eye.

Edit: It’s funny that this seller is able to update WHOIS for other domains. Besides WHOIS privacy, a review of domains sold by this seller, show only two WHOIS names. Andy Booth and Oliver H (Oliver H is the presumed sellers account)  <—this is the first discovery that Oliver H may be the owners of the domains the Booth brothers are bidding on.

Tuesday July 18th at 3:00 PM EST – NamePros user:BoothDomains makes a statement

I just won AirplanesForSale.com and guess what it got charged on my card straight away with fees. I have my own company and my own domains. I have bid against my brother on several names at Namejet. JLZ.com, MDO.com for example. Find something better to moan about. From what I understand Andy sold a bunch of names to someone who lists most of their names at Namejet with no reserves. If you can win a name back for a fraction of the price why wouldnt you. I guarantee most people would do that.

Last edited: Tuesday at 3:51 PM
Tuesday July 18th at 4:51 PM EST – NamePros user: equity78 replied with the following:

Apparently Andrew Rosener thinks it’s ok to bid on your own domain names, Well I would say Jonathan @NameJetGM you better clarify that.

From TheDomains:

  1. Andrew Rosener saysJuly 18, 2017 at 4:43 pmIf a domain is listed for sale with no reserve I actually don’t see the problem with an owner bidding for the domain. In a state tax auction or any other type of asset forfeiture auction it is standard that creditors or prior owners would be bidding in the auction right up against other unrelated bidders.As long as they have to pay cold hard cash to buy the name back like everyone else, then where is the problem? They are creating no economic damage. In fact it is just another form of “reserve” pricing and actually is more economically accurate and beneficial to the market.

    With a reserve auction, nobody wins if the auction doesn’t hit reserve. You do not even get an accurate picture of the market value of the asset because the bids don’t mean ANYTHING until they are over the reserve. At least with a no-reserve auction where the owner is allowed to bid, you have real economic advantage and productivity. The owner must authentically create a value threshold. If owner buys it back, the auction house still gets their commission creating economic benefit. The market gets a true picture of the value of the asset. And the owner re-acquires the asset that they value higher than the market does.

    When you have any deal for ANYTHING and you have a bonafide buyer and a seller at the table then one of them will walk away with the property and one will walk away with the money but BOTH the property and money are on the table and up for grabs by either party. Read that again because its important. If the “Seller” doesn’t accept the offer from the buyer than, in essence, they have just paid whatever price the buyer offered to buy their own property back. Quite literally, there is no buyer and no seller, there are only two parties (or more in the case of an auction) who assign value to a particular piece of property. One party has money (or other consideration) and one party has the property. At that exact moment in time, you have two parties who each need to decide if they value the offered money or the property higher. One walks away with the property and one with the money. Its really that simple.

    Example:

    Lets say that we put Murphy.com for sale in auction or in a straight listing and we receive an offer of $150,000 for the domain. We have have only two options and outcomes:

    1. We accept the offer, transfer the domain and walk away with $150,000
    2. “Buy” the domain for $150,000 ourselves (by turning down the bonafide offer of $150k)

    This may not be immediately obvious to most folks but every time you say “NO” to an offer, what you did was buy your asset or property or contract for whatever the offer price was that you turned down.

    If an auction has a reserve price and the owner is bidding below the reserve price then that is a totally different story. I actually don’t necessarily see the issue with an owner bidding below the reserve either just to create “momentum” in the auction, but since the domain can not be sold below the reserve anyhow, it is not financially harming anyone involved. But I fully understand that this practice is more controversial and does create some false illusion of the value of the asset in the event it does not sell.

    Outside of the domain industry it is common practice that an owner would be able to bid for their own asset in lieu of setting a reserve. If they buy the property back they still have to pay the full commission to the auction house or broker. Again, that is real money paid and keep in mind that if they had let the #2 bidder win, that would have been money in their pocket. So the price paid is actually HIGHER than anyone else would have paid because they are paying the purchase price (opportunity cost) PLUS the auction commission (actual out of pocket cash). If that makes any sense…

    So while I’m sure my post will cause controversy, I must say, I think it is silly to worry about owners bidding on their own domains in either scenario. The only ones you need to worry about are the auction houses themselves and making sure there is no INTERNAL shill bidding (like Halvarez).

Many weighs in on the article about Andrew Rosener’s comment on Sellers being able to bid on their own listings.  But ultimately the majority and also NameJet’s TOS states that it’s illegal to bid on your own listing.

236 thoughts on “ShillGate (Part II) – NameJetGM Acknowleges the Report of Shill Bidding”

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